BorCon - C++ Meet The Team!
Maybe I should have called this C++ Beat the Team... Actually, it turned out slightly better than anticipated.. but of course not as good as the Delphi event 24 hours prior (where we all walked away with a interim build copy of Diamondback).
John Ray Thomas (JT) was the host of the meet the team. It's always great to see and hear from JT, as he's got a pretty good read of what we want and need. The problem, he's not one of the decision makers on what Borland does. More on that later. JT came prepared for the arrows as reflected in his opening remarks... "It was funny as we were preparing for this session at Johnny Rockets someone mentioned that the last public hanging was right across the street." He added, "but we've come prepared to provide some honest upfront answers regarding...
JT shared that since last year they have gone through a re-org. With George as head of all the developer tools (Java, Delphi, C++). Boz Elloy is his boss at the executive level. Scott Arnold, incidentally, also weighs in as he "is responsible for shaping the company’s business strategy [Borland web site]" - thus holds the purse strings. Incidentally, JP LeBlanc, the former C++ exec product manager and principle decision maker in the team going from BCB6(VCL) to CBX, took a job in France, for those that didn't know.
On the topic of the Open Letter. JT shared that it was ready to go several times, but held back by the executive team (legal) at the last minute for further deliberation. DavidI piped in, jokingly of course, that it was "still being spell checked."
You could tell from JT's physical demeanor that he was a bit disappointed that the Open Letters didn't go out because of the change in direction from the top. However, in the midst of uncertain "product planning" decisions being made by the Management Team, George didn't want to send mix signals (flip flopping); which he states would have occurred if they had released the open letters. In fact, that "product planning", which is influenced by the Sales Force field, is still being deliberated by Management (more on that in a moment). The biggest gripe from the audience on this is that they could have done a much better job of communicating --- at least showing some heartbeat C++ was still alive. Certainly, the lack of acknowledgment that something / anything was being worked on, was poor execution on their part. It was made quiet clear that this silence has been perceived as abandonment of their C++ product line and it's users.
The good news is that we learned that Borland, at least their development team, has no intention to abandon C++, and, at least for the development team, they do have had game plan! It's just that that game plan must be finalized by the Management team. (Thus it's still Jello)...
JT shared that between last year and this year they (the development team) recognized that a new version of BCB was needed!" However, after months of development, the field (sales force) came back and told them that they needed CBX first. So at this point (today), they are still investigating how to deliver BCB!
As proof of the ongoing effort, JT switched out of PowerPoint and loaded Borland Developer Studio (Diamondback) with C++Builder integrated into the IDE. That's right. BCB inside Diamondback. He then proceeded to build a simple One Button App. Upon execution of the app, Michael Swindell injected from his seat, "Ship It!!!"
With that, JT mentioned that their intention is to integrate C++Builder (VCL) into Borland Developer Studio. However, they need to finish detailed planning. With that, he mentioned that we will know a final "answer" by no later than December 15, 2004!
I later asked JT if he could create a TurboDemo of his demo and stick it out on the web. He liked the idea. We'll see if it happens though!!! (translate: if the powers that be let him)
At this point there were a whole lot of discussion / comments /arrows being flown etc... from a very well attended Meet the Team (better than expected). It would take too much time to rehash all the comments. But I'll boil it down. The majority of people in the room want Borland to communicate better and want Borland to update C++Builder (VCL). Only two people in the room indicated strong interest in C++BuilderX. Essentially many folks have apps built and maintained using C++Builder, it's their lifeblood and they don't want to not have support from Borland nor do they want to resort to Microsoft Visual C++.
They key, in all of this, is persuading the Management Team, which the Development Team needs help at doing. So I inquired if perhaps the Management Team needs an Open Letter from us - the community (of evangelists) who uses and needs C++Builder (VCL). That seemed to strike a chord. So, over the next few weeks check back here and, certainly, use the news groups to help fashion the key elements that will go into this Open Letter from the Community.
Okay, back to JT's presentation. Currently, Borland is preparing to ship a free update to CBX users code named Boomerang. It will be more stable and include Code Complete. Then there's another build coming, called Didgeridoo (sp?), which will have more features. Again, this product is intended to support multiplatform deployment. One thing worth noting is that they are putting wxWidgets designer on hold. It will not be the RAD tool Windows developers are used to, but it will be a significant tool of worthy consideration for those creating console and mobile applications to different platforms.
After hearing this, I commented to JT that they should probably call this something other than C++BuilderX - and suggested the name TurboC++X :-D [a few chuckles] He agreed the name should change.
Finally, there is good news from the world of Microsoft regarding C++ support for .Net. This actually creates a bigger window of opportunity for Borland in putting out a C++Builder version that not only supports Win32 but also .NET (especially since Borland already has Delphi.NET components!!!) So, June 2005 Microsoft will have compiler, which one would hope Borland would be able to use, that provides the C++ managed support for .Net. Borland is participating in the standardization of this and JT mentioned that Borland’s extension could map nicely.
That's the meat of the content. What you’re not getting in this report is the entire dialog that occurred between all of us, JT, George and the Borland crew. This went on not only during the session, but well after the session (for quite sometime). Unfortunately, Dale Fuller was not there. He was with some power Wall Streeters -- likely trying to keep them away from the C++Builder meet the team session. However, Boz Elloy and Scott Arnold did arrive afterwards and a mess of us cornered them to share our frustrations, requirements and needs.
Incidentally, this open letter I mentioned from Us to Management is seen by the Developer team (including George) as a viable approach and is highly encouraged. There's some hope!!! So, we should definitely put something together in regard to that. Stay tuned for more (and certainly use the newsgroups). But there's no doubt in my mind that the C++ develpoment team (and their Delphi counterparts) would love to deliver BCB and and also include it in a future build of Diamond back (aka Borland Developer Studio).
John Ray Thomas (JT) was the host of the meet the team. It's always great to see and hear from JT, as he's got a pretty good read of what we want and need. The problem, he's not one of the decision makers on what Borland does. More on that later. JT came prepared for the arrows as reflected in his opening remarks... "It was funny as we were preparing for this session at Johnny Rockets someone mentioned that the last public hanging was right across the street." He added, "but we've come prepared to provide some honest upfront answers regarding...
- The Open Letter
- The future of C++Builder
- CBX
- C++ support for .NET"
JT shared that since last year they have gone through a re-org. With George as head of all the developer tools (Java, Delphi, C++). Boz Elloy is his boss at the executive level. Scott Arnold, incidentally, also weighs in as he "is responsible for shaping the company’s business strategy [Borland web site]" - thus holds the purse strings. Incidentally, JP LeBlanc, the former C++ exec product manager and principle decision maker in the team going from BCB6(VCL) to CBX, took a job in France, for those that didn't know.
On the topic of the Open Letter. JT shared that it was ready to go several times, but held back by the executive team (legal) at the last minute for further deliberation. DavidI piped in, jokingly of course, that it was "still being spell checked."
You could tell from JT's physical demeanor that he was a bit disappointed that the Open Letters didn't go out because of the change in direction from the top. However, in the midst of uncertain "product planning" decisions being made by the Management Team, George didn't want to send mix signals (flip flopping); which he states would have occurred if they had released the open letters. In fact, that "product planning", which is influenced by the Sales Force field, is still being deliberated by Management (more on that in a moment). The biggest gripe from the audience on this is that they could have done a much better job of communicating --- at least showing some heartbeat C++ was still alive. Certainly, the lack of acknowledgment that something / anything was being worked on, was poor execution on their part. It was made quiet clear that this silence has been perceived as abandonment of their C++ product line and it's users.
The good news is that we learned that Borland, at least their development team, has no intention to abandon C++, and, at least for the development team, they do have had game plan! It's just that that game plan must be finalized by the Management team. (Thus it's still Jello)...
JT shared that between last year and this year they (the development team) recognized that a new version of BCB was needed!" However, after months of development, the field (sales force) came back and told them that they needed CBX first. So at this point (today), they are still investigating how to deliver BCB!
As proof of the ongoing effort, JT switched out of PowerPoint and loaded Borland Developer Studio (Diamondback) with C++Builder integrated into the IDE. That's right. BCB inside Diamondback. He then proceeded to build a simple One Button App. Upon execution of the app, Michael Swindell injected from his seat, "Ship It!!!"
With that, JT mentioned that their intention is to integrate C++Builder (VCL) into Borland Developer Studio. However, they need to finish detailed planning. With that, he mentioned that we will know a final "answer" by no later than December 15, 2004!
I later asked JT if he could create a TurboDemo of his demo and stick it out on the web. He liked the idea. We'll see if it happens though!!! (translate: if the powers that be let him)
At this point there were a whole lot of discussion / comments /arrows being flown etc... from a very well attended Meet the Team (better than expected). It would take too much time to rehash all the comments. But I'll boil it down. The majority of people in the room want Borland to communicate better and want Borland to update C++Builder (VCL). Only two people in the room indicated strong interest in C++BuilderX. Essentially many folks have apps built and maintained using C++Builder, it's their lifeblood and they don't want to not have support from Borland nor do they want to resort to Microsoft Visual C++.
They key, in all of this, is persuading the Management Team, which the Development Team needs help at doing. So I inquired if perhaps the Management Team needs an Open Letter from us - the community (of evangelists) who uses and needs C++Builder (VCL). That seemed to strike a chord. So, over the next few weeks check back here and, certainly, use the news groups to help fashion the key elements that will go into this Open Letter from the Community.
Okay, back to JT's presentation. Currently, Borland is preparing to ship a free update to CBX users code named Boomerang. It will be more stable and include Code Complete. Then there's another build coming, called Didgeridoo (sp?), which will have more features. Again, this product is intended to support multiplatform deployment. One thing worth noting is that they are putting wxWidgets designer on hold. It will not be the RAD tool Windows developers are used to, but it will be a significant tool of worthy consideration for those creating console and mobile applications to different platforms.
After hearing this, I commented to JT that they should probably call this something other than C++BuilderX - and suggested the name TurboC++X :-D [a few chuckles] He agreed the name should change.
Finally, there is good news from the world of Microsoft regarding C++ support for .Net. This actually creates a bigger window of opportunity for Borland in putting out a C++Builder version that not only supports Win32 but also .NET (especially since Borland already has Delphi.NET components!!!) So, June 2005 Microsoft will have compiler, which one would hope Borland would be able to use, that provides the C++ managed support for .Net. Borland is participating in the standardization of this and JT mentioned that Borland’s extension could map nicely.
That's the meat of the content. What you’re not getting in this report is the entire dialog that occurred between all of us, JT, George and the Borland crew. This went on not only during the session, but well after the session (for quite sometime). Unfortunately, Dale Fuller was not there. He was with some power Wall Streeters -- likely trying to keep them away from the C++Builder meet the team session. However, Boz Elloy and Scott Arnold did arrive afterwards and a mess of us cornered them to share our frustrations, requirements and needs.
Incidentally, this open letter I mentioned from Us to Management is seen by the Developer team (including George) as a viable approach and is highly encouraged. There's some hope!!! So, we should definitely put something together in regard to that. Stay tuned for more (and certainly use the newsgroups). But there's no doubt in my mind that the C++ develpoment team (and their Delphi counterparts) would love to deliver BCB and and also include it in a future build of Diamond back (aka Borland Developer Studio).
4 Comments:
Excellent post Paul. Well done and thank you.
Regarding the actual situation it's just so frustrating that it seems to be an all or nothing approach - we'll either end up with a fantastic new environment, or we'll get nothing.
Despite the initial euphoria of this news, I just can't help but feel pessimistic about the final outcome.
Thanks again
Des O'Toole
Thanks for keeping us up to date, Paul. Good job.
The Open Letter to TPTB at Borland sounds like a good idea. I'd be happy to see BCB rolled into Diamondback, I think this is the best solution for all VCL developers.
Was a reason given for "putting wxWindows designer on hold"?
I'm not particularly enamoured with this framework, but it works and Borland were promising a pure C++ framework afterall?
Stew
I hope i can vent a little bit... cant hold it back any longer....
The whole wx framework is a gigantic step into the past...the days of MFC style programming. Yes having a fully C++ based gui library is fantastic...but wx framework is just a good example of how not to design a GUI library. for heavens sake....it has no clue about templates, exceptions or the standard C++ library!
I wish Borland puts effort into creating a good native C++ cross platform library instead of a product like BCBX.
Anyway in the mean time VCL is good and I could live with it.
Other big rude shock for any C++ devleoper would be that his IDE was written in Java ...of all things !
BCB would take up some 8-14MB on my machine. Here comes BCBX and gobbles up 75Megs right off the bat even before I actually started using it. Oh lord would Java folks even realise that memory may be cheap ...but not free! Same for CPU cycles...and that developers dont have super computers at their disposal to write code on.
We would love to take the chap, who decided to turn BCB into BCBX, to the cleaners.
-Roshan
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